Stereotypes and Status

As many of you know, Mark Driscoll, pastor of the Mars Hill Church in Seattle, has been causing quite a stir among Christian writers, thinkers, bloggers, and church leaders. I thought I'd wade into these waters as a Christian research psychologist and offer up some thoughts on Mark Driscoll.

The aspect of Driscoll's ministry that I'd like to focus on is Driscoll's thesis regarding the place of masculinity within Christianity. This "Macho Man" emphasis is the most provocative and controversial aspect of Driscoll's ministry....

When you listen to Driscoll much of what he is talking about has more to do with traditional gender role interests than agenic personality. Changing the oil in my car, shooting guns, and loving NASCAR are, stereotypically, male gender role interests. And Driscoll has a point that none of this is intrinsically unChristian. The trouble comes when issues of gender role interest get confused with issues of agenic psychology. Loving Monster Truck rallies is a separate issue from psychological needs for power, control, and dominance.

Here's my point. People tend to confuse gender role interest and agenic personality motives. If "Joe Six Pack" shows up at church and gets the vibe that he "can't be a man" what, exactly, does this mean? That to be a Christian you can't drink beer or go to Ultimate Fighter matches? It seems to me that the feminine/child metaphors of Christianity are pushing back against agenic strivings rather then stereotypical gender interests. But this is not at all clear to many male believers. The two issues--gender role interests and agenic motives--are often conflated. This leads to a great deal of confusion about if "real guys" have a place at church....

A lot of the reaction to Driscoll isn't even about gender. We are actually talking about the little discussed fissure running through many churches: Education.

I see this everyday in my own church. The educated teach, preach, and have the public leadership roles. The uneducated are marginalized. Worse, if you are an uneducated male, you are force-fed those feminine metaphors. Educated males, being chickified, don't mind or even notice the feminine metaphors. But Joe Six Pack notices the metaphors. All this creates a disjoint in the church. Two groups of males who find each other alien and weird. So when Joe Six Pack wants to start a Wild at Heart study the chickified church leader just blinks uncomprehendingly. Or, if you are me, turns back to his knitting...

Let me offer up this little test for your reflection and experimentation:

If you hear a man trash Wild at Heart or Promise Keepers that person very often has a graduate degree. {full post}

[via Experimental Theology, HT: Notes From Off-Center]

Can a Liberal Learn from Mark Driscoll?

[via Threads from Henry's Web]

Driscoll Video Provides Surprising Products

Uniform Message Creates Wide Distribution

Pastor Bill Hybels may believe women have spiritual gifts, but Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church spawns material ones primarily for men. A video which features Driscoll discussing church planting was played at the 2007 National New Church Conference, with the intention of being widely distributed later. However, this objective was not achieved, with Driscoll's blog suggesting that the organizers were "not wanting a bigger fuss" because of alleged controversial material. The pertinent video called "The Good Soldier" was then placed on YouTube.

As the blogosphere became abuzz with activity over this, many have tried to relate to Driscoll's message. Interest in Jesus action figures has doubled, especially those that include a weapon or have a soldier's uniform. A Jesus who appears in a dress, suggestive of a gay hippie are in development, says Randall Armstrong, CEO of Lame Christian Men. They will likely be modelled after Rob Bell and Joel Osteen, mainly aimed at the secure Christian male demographic, he said.

Driscoll dolls are also becoming popular, particularly among women. Retailers point out that they are definitely amused, possibly because of the comfort stemming from owning and playing with the toys. One option makes Driscoll utter memorable quotes, such as "men is the most important variable", which usually puts a foot into the doll's mouth. This does not seem to be a malfunction, the manufacturer notes, but it has not apparently happened enough to investigate further or consider it unsafe. (There is a warning on the package as a precaution, however.) The toys also have an open hand and a closed fist normally, but unfortunately nothing for scissors.

Some want to identify with the message through song. The punk band Reform Revolution will release their debut album "Prom Songs" in June to correspond with Graduation ceremonies. According to the lead singer, Jezebel Machoan, the band wants everyone to embrace the mission of Pastor Mark, empowering half of humanity for the benefit of all. The album includes the singles "In The Rear Until They Fear (The Lord)", "Miss Understood", "Win The Men, Win The War" and "Rockin' To The Spice Girls". They plan to tour this fall to wimpy cities across America.

Others need a more sensual experience to get into the mission of resonating with Driscoll. Victwares, a company specializing in "embodying potent ministry", has anything from herbal tea to pump you up to aromatherapy treatments that gently remove any sense of perspective. Their most popular product, Servitude, supposedly helps women to avoid nasty headaches and gain a servant's heart when their men need their regular requirement of intimacy. The instructions state that it is best used at least once daily, although some women dispute the effects.

The Acts 29 Network has cautiously supported these efforts, hoping they can compensate for any lost impact and mixed reviews of Pastor Mark Driscoll at this point. Many men and some women expect this to create common ground, considering the regular frustration and defensiveness associated with Driscoll's teaching. Not all are as optimistic and characterize this as a distraction from the real issues involved. However, it is evident that Driscoll's consistent branding has encouraged a broad range of responses that entertain while complicated.

Not Sexualized or Segregated

On the one hand, Mark Driscoll challenges cultural stereotypes. On the other hand, when it comes to gender, Driscoll's language and communal leadership advocates deeply entrenched gender stereotypes on sex, women, men, and relationships. This is more than just a disagreement about roles or how many times a week a husband and wife should have sex. It is how men and women ought to relate to each other in our contemporary world for the sake of kingdom immediacy and intimacy....

Perhaps our greatest challenge as Christians in our contemporary world is to hunger and thirst and pray for a kingdom immediacy that is not a sexualized kingdom nor a gender segregated kingdom.

There is indeed something deeply Christian, deeply eschatological, to pray with a man or woman who is a close, sacred companion but not your spouse: "I thank You Lord, for our unique history, for the depth of our shared intimacy, for our shared history of answered prayers, for our shared history of supporting each other in prayer through so many different circumstances and relationships."

[via Faith Dance]

Men Are Not Enough...

[from this comment at this post]

Mark Driscoll is correct. “Selection of ‘the man’[or men] is extremely important”. And this will be the downfall of the Church, not selecting the right men to be in leadership.

And we can see that the men in the Church have not been selecting the right men - look at all the fallen, shameful male pastors who have embarrassed Christ in front of the whole world. So, the right men have not been selected. Of course, if women are not included in the leadership process [as Timothy’s mother and grandmother were in teaching Timothy the Scriptures], then there will be no right men left in the Church: this includes Mark Driscoll....

And who will be left in the Church in 2050? - not the end of the Church as Driscoll predicts, but the steadfast women who worship Christ. The same ones that were at the cross when the men hid; the same ones that were first at the tomb when the men did not believe; the first to Evangelize; the ones that Christ Himself included in the Church when the ‘men’ tried to exclude them.

[via The CBE Scroll]

Mark Misusing Metaphors?

[from a comment to this post at Progression of Faith]

For whatever it's worth, I thought Driscoll's video was quite good, with a couple qualifications:
- his language is somewhat violent (e.g. his use of the word 'retarded' and the denial that Jesus is a 'gay hippie')
- he doesn't qualify the military metaphors the way the apostle Paul does when he uses them

While military metaphors are part and parcel of the Bible's vocabulary, in the New Testament, they almost are always subverted by their context. For example, Paul talks about 'spiritual warfare' because our 'enemies' are emphatically NOT 'flesh and blood'. In Revelation, even the triumphant Jesus's 'sword' is identified as 'the word' (rather than an actual weapon of descruction).
Ultimately, all of the military warfare of Scripture needs to be interpreted Christologically: it is in his death that Jesus disarms the powers, and by his sacrifice that he 'storms the gates of Hades'.
Language issues aside, this is the one qualification I wish Marc would have made in the video (the military graveyard was a little over the top in my view).
He obviously has more conservative views than I do on women in leadership, but his zeal can be admired in spite of its rough edges.

What Good Is Your Calling Then?

I have been involved in the replanting of one church and the new church plant of another. I've been active in both, taking on leadership wherever it was needed....

My problem with Mark Driscoll is not so much what he says but his attitude; he believes that he can say what he wants, and won't take much correction on it. I'm afraid for him that he's begun to believe his own hype.

Hype is the persona that some church planters will take on. They need to appeal to the culture that they are targeting....

There is a danger when you have a powerful voice that is listened to by many. If you have believed your own hype you may think that you are justified in saying or doing what you want. If you look around you there will be many who support what you say or do. They are easy to find. They're the ones standing right in your front of you. The groupies who say 'amen' and 'right on' to whatever you utter. But if you look further away you will see the faithful who are doing the work to make relationships with those you have drawn in. Who in your life do you let hold you accountable? Is it only the yes men? Are there any yes women?

You are human, you cannot possibly be right all the time. You will fail. You will say or do the wrong thing and you will do it in a very public way. It's humiliating, if you actually come to the place of seeing your error. If there is someone in your life that you listen to, who can and will correct you, then your ministry will continue to reach the many that it has. If you don't your ministry will fall, it is inevitable. That's not prophecy, it's common sense.

I don't say that because I have it out for Mark. The loss of someone who is as effective as Mark is a sad thing for the ministry but the reality is if you cannot be accountable then God will remove you, and that's nothing to rejoice over. What good is your calling then?

[via my father's house, emphasis mine]

Teaching Discipliine, Stifling Creativity

Maybe you’ve been following all the hoopla surrounding Mark Driscoll’s posting of the “banned” church planting video. Now, please, let’s not get into the whole Driscoll vs. Hybel debate here. That’s been done enough elsewhere. I just wanted to give some thoughts on Driscoll’s comments about twenty something guys who have their priorities all backwards, especially when he talks about guys who are “trying to figure out how to get a larger subwoofer into their retarded car”. Why did I find that interesting? Because I am that guy…or at least I could be perceived that way. I’ve got a ten inch sub in my trunk (not just any sub mind you, a MOMO sub). It’s not huge, but it’s pretty big, and can be pretty loud when I want it to be, which this time of year with the windows down and some rockin’ tunes on is pretty often.

So the big question: Being that guy, how did I feel about that statement?

....Now here’s what a lot of people miss, and why a lot of twenty-somethings are staying away from Church, just because we’re teaching discipline doesn’t mean we should stifle creativity. Car enthusiasts are more than just unmotivated jerks with retarded cars and loud subwoofers. Actually, they are extremely motivated and creative individuals whose cars are their artform.

[via one mo blog]

Embattled and Thriving

I am convinced after watching the “controversy” unfold this week that he thrives off this conflict. I mean we’ve all met people like that right? Most of them are dysfunctional in some way, some are overcomers and overachievers. I think Driscoll is the later. He overachieves through thriving off how polarizing he is. I mean taking on Bill Hybels, one of the most liked guys in Christendom is pretty hardcore. As the facts fall out it seems Driscoll and Acts 29 are overstating their side of the story!

I’m pretty sure they don’t strategically do this. That is, I don’t think they sit in a room and think, “this will be really good for our BRAND!” I just think Driscoll is fiery enough to pull it off and when he does this crap, it repels a majority of the world, but to his fans, it makes them bigger fans. It’s like Apple/Mac or Nike or any other Brand that depends on its fans to promote their product. Yeah, they have great commercials, but the rubber hits the road when the product is used, liked, and self-promoted.

I mean, I watched Driscoll’s video and just laughed. If some didn’t know what he was about, they would think it was a parody. Especially considering Virgina Tech.

[via Jason Smith]

Christus Victor, The Sense of Challenge

Mark Driscoll, pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle, has hit the emerging church blogosphere this week, with a video clip he provided for the National New Church Conference Church Planting conference in Miami last week. Mark wasn’t able to get to the conference and so sent a videotape of him speaking.

Mark focuses on 2 Timothy 2, the passage in which church planter Timothy is encouraged to be focused, hardworking and able to endure hardship.

“You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others. Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer. Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor’s crown unless he competes according to the rules. The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.”

Mark delivers his rant from a military cemetery, with a video closeup to the firm-wristed gun-toting soldier statue. He paints the church planting scene in terms of battleground and body count. He believes that selecting the ‘right man’ is critical to the success of a church plant. He suggests that the core mission is to find men to serve, put them through boot camp, instruct them, and through God’s grace force them to be people who will live as God’s people....

Clearly the soldier image does it for some men. And some women. However the writer of 2 Timothy goes on to use the image of athlete and farmer as well. The early church would have had a healthy percentage of pacifists for whom the military connotations would have been repugnant.

I don’t agree with Mark’s commitment to use only men in church leadership roles. But I can sympathise with his efforts to develop a concept of church that will equip and inspire people with the Y chromosome. So are there models and metaphors that provide the sense of challenge and focus needed by men today?

Denny Weaver, in his book, Nonviolent Atonement, works with the Christus Victor concept in a way that clearly portrays Jesus as an alternative to the stereotypes of ‘macho marine’ and ‘gay hippie’.

[via Pacific Highlander]

So Many Women, So Much Overcompensating

How effective is someone as a model for church planting when he alienates so many women in our culture?

[via Faith Dance]

Two Ms Are Missing?

Misogynist Pastors

[via aaron ghiloni]

Lonely Leaders?

Mark Driscoll is a Seattle mega church leader in the US who started in 1996, now his church has around 2 thousand members and 40 thousand square feet of church space. He has gotten some attention for rudeness in an online debate at the Christianity Today Leadership blog (he apologized) then scurrilous remarks about women and ministers wife’s when the Ted Haggard scandal came to light. He said he didn’t mean what people heard....

His seminars pack in pastors willing to pay a lot of money to learn how to succeed with their church growth. Driscoll has written a couple of books, says he is a charismatic Calvinist, and along with his myriad responsibilities is attempting a masters degree. He is not ordained. Mars Hill in none denominational.

While there is a sprinkling of biblical truth in his speech..., and while I personally have no emotional attachment to where he chooses to tape it, I don’t see his video symbolism making sense to the speech subject.
The video is called Good Soldiers.

His ideas on church planting are like a CEO expounding a US business/ expansion/culture war model, but thousands of pastors and seminary students fans would disagree and correct me....

What is foreign to you as a minster, church attendee or follower of Jesus Christ in this video?
What are you hearing overtly or covertly?
What do you agree and disagree with?
Is Driscoll correct that this how/what church planters and pastors are called to be?

[via connexions]

Open Hand, Closed Fist

I realize that for Mars Hill Church in Seattle, women in elder/pastoral ministry (or more precisely, not being in elder/pastoral ministry) is in the "closed hand" of issues/doctrines not up for questioning or reconsidering, as opposed to the "open hand" of things over which Mars Hill people can disagree without disengaging. I get that.

I also get that the last time we were together, I heard Mark say specifically that when it comes to relationships/fellowship outside of Mars Hill, women in ministry is an "open hand issue."

What I don't get is Mark's tone-deafness when speaking to a huge group of people that he knows are all over the map on this issue, including a number of women pastors and church planters. I realize he has his opinions. Boy, does he.
I also know he's smart... and I really don't want to believe that Mark would intentionally poke a stick into a bee hive every few months just to draw some attention. I really don't.

So we're going to go with option 2- He forgets that in terms of relationship with other churches and the Body of Christ as a whole, he's trying to see this issue as an open hand thing about which good Christian people can disagree. And in forgetting, he speaks with perhaps less grace, less care than he should to people who he knows feel very strongly and very differently than him about the issue. In fact, the more he talks about this issue, the more he pushes and pounds it, the more that open hand feels like a closed fist.

[via bob.blog]

Daily Sex With Pastor Mark

[via internetmonk.com]

Trading One Caricature for Another

[via The Thinklings]

Thoughts on Mark Driscoll and Tony Soprano

[via Philosophy Over Coffee]

If this is a good soldier count me out of the war

[via The Heresy]

Hard To Wise Up

Over the last couple of years I have spoken with at least three people whom the Driscoll would consider close, personal friends. All have indicated to me that they were concerned about some of the things that came out of his mouth and that they had, on numerous occasions, expressed concern to him about his words and their impact.

I've also watched as slowly but surely, Mark has gotten somewhat more careful with his words. Though "limp-wristed homoevangelical" wasn't too awfully long ago, it seems to have been awhile since anything was labeled "faggoty" and that's progress no matter how you slice it.

But the recent fracas over comments on the Resurgence blog, the planned protest, the sit down between Mark and others, and Mark's subsequent statements have left me wondering- is Mark getting wiser... or just smarter?

I won't say why, but I have reason to believe, or maybe I should say reason to fear, the answer is "smarter."

So far, Mark has studiously avoided the language of apology, and while what he has said has been a step in the right direction, it should be noted that what might actually be happening is that Mark is getting smarter about what he says about people, but not necessarily wiser in what he thinks about people.

...External pressure brings about external changes and while I may make concessions to alleviate the pressure, often, the end result is a hardening. I'm sure that I was right all along, and all the pressure I'm feeling convinces me of that. I'll adjust to get different results- but the adjustments remain surface...

Here's the thing- I don't think protest ever makes someone wiser. It simply makes them smarter. Protest may have the power to change the outside, but it can never change the inside. Sometimes protest is needed, and sometimes we need to start with changing the outside, particularly when someone reaches a place of harm coming to others...

But head-on external pressure absent loving relationship will simply make someone smarter about their sin. It won't change their heart.

[via bob.blog]

After the Mark Driscoll Meeting...

[via Emerging Grace]